D6 to D7 Yet another Upgrade Question

Ok Guys/Gals/Androids and Machines,

I am sure this has been asked before and I might get shot for this, but why not ask anyway?

For those of you who have been with Boonex since the early days (Pre 6 or 5), has there ever been such a radical database change that was put into place (Like D7 is to D6.1.x now). If so, once the code went final or "Gold" as some would call it, was a script provided?

The reason I ask is that while my site is tiny (50 or so members), I shudder to make them re-register their data once more when D7 goes final.  Like others, I am waiting for D7 to be "blessed" by the programmers and then when final, install it...

I do test with the Beta releases which are fun to tweak and so forth, but right now, my concerns are moving towards the upgrade process (if any) from D6.1.x to D7.

And to do the forum bouncers, I promise to behave. 

Eeennnyyybuddy?  (Anybody?)

I'm not 100% certain because I'm not staff but I've seen it mentioned several times that there will be no upgrade path from 6.x to 7.x.  You will have to start from scratch or move the data manually where possible.  I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think I am which is why my project is on hold until 7 launches.

I am actually in the same boat. I have 6.1.4 and have now gathered 40 members since I opened it up to the public. The problem I see here is that the database table names are completely different than the current version. I have found a way to migrate some of my member's information (only because they both contain a "profiles" table) like ID, Nickname, Password, Email, etc. but not all of it.  I have yet to find a way to migrate photos and videos since they no longer reside in the same tables.

I have also mentioned that I hope they can assist us with this issue once a final version is released. For instance, If a site has a few hundred or thousands of users, who in their right mind would scrap all their content and make ALL their users re-join just to have a "newer" version of the software.

IDK, keep your fingers crossed. We have some pretty smart fellas around here. Im sure someone will come up with something.....I hope :)

They have told us over and over again, there will be NO upgrade from D6 to D7. The databases tables are totally different from D6 and I see no way to transfer them to D7.  I must say this is a HUGE dissapointment to people that have paying customers and they WILL lose some members when they switch over. Also the beta's are really starting to get way out of control,too many with each release there are a number of errors that get fixed but then alot more pop up in later release. Seems like a vicious circle that we all must ride if we want to use their software. I for one will not put any more of my income into this software untill they can show they are making progress and not 1 step forward 2 steps back. I am sure alot feel that way, same with being a contributor as well. Give us a software we can work with and I have no problem giving what i can money wise to the future development of this software. If we have no release by Jan 1 2010 I think I will just move on and purchase a software else wheres. Yeah you all can yell at me all you want and say I will not find a software out there like Dolphin, and I will say your right, most software offered online really works..lol

I have been with Dolphin for a few years now and this is the first time the databases are totally different.  We never had to worry about transfering data from 1 software to latest software, but that's all over with now. We had upgrades but that was it, no data transfer. I expect that data transfer from D7 to D8 will probably be the same way.

I agree that is why Im just waiting things out, and not investing any money untill a rc version of d7 is released. I am lucky because i was about to put a decent amount of money in developing my site, but when i seen d7 is somewhat close to being released i decided to wait for it to come out.  I currently have told the little amount of members i have that its just in a test phase and i wanted them all to just let me know any bugs they could find with d6.16 and that the actual released of my site will be alot different and better.  But it would suck if i had got a large database full of members, i dont think i would even upgrade to d7 if i did.  I just cant see a good enough reason to justify losing any streams of income with the new release imo.

I'm in the same situation.  I was about to buy several hundred dollars worth of mods and, in fact, had just had some mods done when I found D7.  It does a lot of what the mods were going to do and the integrated store is golden for me since it will be a backbone of my site and I was going to have to use an external script to get it done.  I decided it was better just to wait even if I will have to pay more for a license.  Having most of what I want bulit in is better than having a couple dozen add-ons that will hopefully all play nicely together.  So now it's just getting the content and marketing plan perfected ready to go so I can hit the ground running.

What Boonex has said, was that they would provide 'migration tools'.  The two versions are just too different for a one-size-fits-all upgrade script.... especially taking into consideration that most D6 sites will have some sort of mod installed.

By 'migration tools' I presume that to mean ways to bring the D6 member database into D7 along with their photos, videos, and other media... forum structure and post.. etc.  D6 users will likely be on their own when it come to migrating any database information stored by mods.

Well hon we have been told  many many things and I don't think we will be able to transfer members to D7. I bet you will have to hire out for this. I will believe it when or "IF" it happens..lol

Boonex no obligation to us. They do so as possible. These changes are so significant that it is a completely new product.

Unfortunately, many projects have to start from scratch, in my opinion.

I'm sorry but you are wrong, Boonex does have a obligation to all the folks that have spent money on their products. Alot of people have paid alot of money for this software license and for the extras that go with it.

I disagree LightWolf.  If they were forcing you to upgrade, maybe.  But they're not.  It's your choice to upgrade or not.  You got the product you paid for.  This is a different product that you haven't paid for yet.  Now, it may be a nice thing for them to give a price  break to people who already hold licenses but they're not obligated to do anything - just as you're not obligated to switch to D7.  Besides, once you start adding mods it's hardly their product any more so you can't really expect them to support migration of anything other than the original, stipped down version of 6.

To be more precise, no one has paid for a product.

What people are buying are licenses to give you the right to run the product without displaying Boonex's Ads.

The product itself is open source and free.

Okay I think you really need to read post before you post what you said. As i stated above "alot of people have paid alot of money for this software license and for the extras that go with it." Nothing was ever said about buying Dolphin persay.

I did.

Its just the argument about money spent on a free product erks me. And i believe your missing my point. Most do.

There are different ideas on how much responsibility boonex is obligated to take. That is where our opinions drastically differ.

I look at the product, the licensing, and the money spent on mods from a completely different point of view then most people.

So if we are not to complain about free software then what about the likelyhood that Boonex *yet to confirm* issues no migration script?

All of the 6.1.6 users will be stuck with three choices if there is no migration script:

1. Stick with 6.1.6 forever
2. Forces ENTIRE userbase to re-register...risking people never returning.
3. Pays $$$ for a third party programmed script to be built and run it to migrate.

I for one don't wish to do any of this and probably won't as well.  I paid for the "Right to remove" the advertisements from my site referencing it to Boonex.  Let's get real for a second, IF you are running a dating site, do you want copycats to get the same software and run against you when you are trying to get established?  NO.   So, you fork over the mandatory $$$ to remove the Boonex branding.  This not only makes it look cleaner but also more professional.

Gaming and other sites may not care too much about pointing to Boonex which is perfectly fine as long as no revenue is expected to come from the site.

On the flip side of this as I know some will point this out is that while ANYBODY can download Dolphin and mod it to their heart's content, not ANYBODY can set it up and make it successful.  I agree with this one.

We are then left with the thought of having to modify Dolphin to drop the "Powered by" stuff and move on with the script.

With that said, to say that Boonex doesn't owe us anything, I partially agree as we are free to modify the open source project.  HOWEVER, when I paid for the license to do this, would it not be reasonable to expect that Boonex would continue to support 6.1.x branch as long as active installs are out there by providing a migration script to help ensure security of the software against black hat 0day exploits?

I understand and agree that Boonex can and will stop the development of 6.1.x branch once 7 goes final, however, it will not stop us from having the fundamental issue of the user base.

I don't seen anyone complaining about the migration of paid mods or other programs they may have purchased.  Why?  Because it isn't expected.  The sole purpose of upgrading software when there is a MAJOR database rewrite is to keep the bare essentials (in this case user base - nothing more), intact.  An experienced webmaster of Dolphin would not have issues resetting the site they want it to be set to match the older style concerning logo, content etc.

I personally have two dating sites up right now, one locally based and one regionally based.  Local based was on Dolphin, until D7 dropped ccbill support.  (I'm sorry, I don't have any other options including Paypal.) it is now under osDate.  My regional site is on d6.1.6 and has since converted to a "FREE" site knowing that D7 would not keep the ccbill support.

For those wanting to know, osDate is very good in support and options, however not as powerful as Boonex or as good looking.  osDate is also a "Free script" with the author's blessing to remove the "Powered by" w/o asking for extra $$.  Why?  Who knows, but at least it is free, and with that I expect what I get for free is "Use at your own risk." policy.  I know that I can rely on support from the programmer (Just one by the way), within 48 hours.  IF you poll the standings of osDate vs. other scripts you will see it is higher up in the ranking that others partially because of the author's support and management policies from the back end of the script.

Please understand I am not endorsing osDate and would RATHER use Dolphin instead, but when my hand was cut of so to speak financially with excommunicating ccbill from D7, it left a rather bad taste in my mouth.  Why should I be forced now to buy the module from some programmer on ExpertZZZ just because it was left out in the new version?  That IMHO forced me out of the Dolphin scene when it came to payments. Was stated by UnoBoonex that it was Feature Final - that is no other features to be added.  (OR at least how I interpreted it).

So, ummm...yeah...asking for Boonex to return the favor to us by adding a migration script would be part of the "Product you paid for".  IF not, at least put a price tag on D7 as an upgrade then include the migration script.

I am not exactly saying that boonex has no obligations. What your paying for is the licensing, so its quite obvious that they must make sure the licenses purchaced work with future products. Which they have.

But it is also my opinion that boonex cannot be held responsible in any way for mods people have added to their site.

Now as for upgrades. Should they make sure the 6.x lines databases can be imported into the 7.x product line. Yes, i do believe they should, but i also believe they are not required to. This is because i don't believe dolphin 7 is a upgrade from dolphin 6, but rather a new product.

But putting all that aside, lets look at the thing most of us are not seeing. Regardless of wether or not boonex develops a database migration script, some one will. So even if boonex themselves do not do it, it will be available written by someone. I plan on writing one myself if i need to. I do agree, forcing members to re-register is not good. I did that when i switched to dolphin last year and lost 75% of my member base as a result. So i do understand how important it is.

The question was asked & answered by Andrew in this blog post, for some reason the title & post was changed, the replies from Andrew are still in place as to D6 to D7.

http://www.boonex.com/unity/blog/entry/Question_Regarding_D7_Beta_For_Boonex

Question...

To avoid the headache of changing from d6 to d7, if someone were to download the latest d7 BETA version (working around and through the current bugs) would it still be just as hard to update/upgrade to the final release of d7?

I'd like to know this too because I have a BUTTLOAD of content to add to the site and it's going to take ages but past betas have required a new database install so I don't want to start adding content only to learn that I have to over-write it all in a few weeks...

To be honest, this has been my biggest "nightmare" about the upgrade, but from what I have been reading here and other posts, It looks like ya'll will at least be able to transfer members, photos (shared and profile), music (shared and profile), and videos as well as possibly groups, comments in some areas.

I would be satisfied with being able to move those and just having my members re-do their custom profile, privacy settings, etc. I don't think they would mind that as long as most of the other content was moved.

It seems that we should be able to move the "most important" stuff without worry.. I hope I'm not wrong..lol